If this is the case and has always been the case this is the worst rule in the history of Dirt Track Racing for any track.
If a driver supports the track and if they have problems and was to spin out twice or even cause two caution and gets blackflagged and they don't get their money or points for something like that then this is really a shame.
I would like to see a copy of the 2005 201 rule book where this rule is listed in it. If anyone has a copy of the rulebook please email it to me, or call me and I will turn on my fax machine and fax it to me.
my opinion is that if you cause two cautions than you should be black flagged so the race can go on.Disqualified means you are no longer allowed to participate and that to me would mean no money or points.This is just the way I see it,no hard feelings.
I agree with that Genner, two cautions and you get blackflagged from the rest of the race, but I think you should still get credit for the part of the race you have run.
If a driver gets charged with a second caution with only a few laps to go then they should get credit for the racing they participated in to that point, I have seen races where 20 cars start and only 5 or 6 finish, so if a car is blackflagged late in the race that driver could still get a decent finish which would include money and points if they are credited with their finishing position.
Let me ask you this. Is it more fair for a driver to compete in one or two laps and retire from the race with mechanical problems and get start money and points, than a driver who competed the entire race racing hard for positions and trying to win the race, then late in the race while racing hard loops the car possibly caused by a flat, they come into the pits change the tire comes out and in Fouts case a mistake in tire selection causes another spin and he is blackflagged for two spins and that driver after working so racing and competing so hard for the win and the money and the points gets absolutely nothing for that effort while the driver that had the mechanical problems and get to watch the race from the pit bleachers takes home at worst the start money for starting the race and also the points.
Do you really think this rule is fair to the drivers? I do think it is fair for the driver that had mechanical problems to get credit for his finish, but I do not think it is fair to with hold points or money due a driver for getting a black flag due to causing two cautions on the track, if the driver has completed at least one lap of green flag racing in the feature.
I would agree with the rule of with holding money and points for unsportsman like conduct on or off the track like rough driving or fighting in the pits, I can even understand not paying or giving points to a driver that did not officially complete one lap in the feature, but not just for causing two cautions and being blackflagged for it after laps have been officially scored, in my opinion that is the worst rule I ever heard of, and while I admit I have no knowledge of the payout rules for other tracks, I would be willing to bet that the percentage of tracks that actually have this rule is very very small.
Post by DirtRacinNut on Jul 19, 2005 6:15:55 GMT -5
I've been reading this patiently, but I can't any longer. Jamie is ABSOLUTELY correct. I think maybe we need to look deeper at the term "disqualification".
If a driver "disqualified", then it's like they were never there. But, a driver is NOT disqualified by being shown a black flag. A black flag only means that you must leave the track. It doesn't undo what you have done to that point.
A driver/car is "disqualified" for other reasons, i.e. not meeting weight, improper tires or equipment, improper use of a crow bar in a fight.
Post by Jayson_Boyd15B on Jul 24, 2005 0:28:28 GMT -5
All i know is we have got some very bad ends of the stick at 201 this year. Randy did get his points that night BUT never recieved ANY starting money and he took the green flag which means he started the race, shoot he actually ran up front a few laps. Like soemone said earlier, that has to be the worst rule in the history of dirt track racing. We was never disqualified, we was black flagged.and Why didnt the 201 officials ever give and explanation or address it?..here or at the track?. the only explanation we ever got was from the wife of a driver?? i would really like to see in the rule book on papaer where it says if a driver is black flagged for 2 spinouts and black flagged he doesnt recieve starting money atleast. What if there are only 2 cars left running with 5 laps to go and the second place spins out twice and black flagged. Does he not get paid anything or should he get paid his second place finishing spot??
All i know is its in the past. Randy has supported 201 every weekend this year and not good the good hand dealt to him much at all. Awfulle loyal to a track who seemed to not notice..Luckily thats all in the past..We dont care and have looked past it now and happily racing back at 201 tonite ..
Post by dirtcaster on Jul 24, 2005 22:16:57 GMT -5
Well, since this seems to such a hot topic, I thought I would clear some things up. 1st of all, the rule at 201 is "If you cause two spins, during a heat race or feature, You will be black flaged from the race, You would recieve points for the position where you finished. now, if a driver were disqualified for being illegal, or unsportsman conduct they would not get any money for their position, or recieve any money. On the night, Randy was black flagged off the track, he did recieve points, he wasn't paid money for his finishing position, and the reason was explained to Randy, and honestly that's between Randy and Mike. Mike did talk with Randy and came to an agreement. Even though Randy was upset that night, he and his family conducted themselves in a class fashion, Nevertheless, Randy was not paid for his position,, and I believe that Randy and Mike both are in agreement, and have put this issue in the past. Again. I know Mike would like to have a pit full of drivers like Randy, and of course, Randy and his crew are always welcome at 201. If Randy is still upset, which I don't believe he is. He should get up with Mike at the track, but I believe that, it's over, and it's time to move on.
Post by Jayson_Boyd15B on Jul 24, 2005 22:36:32 GMT -5
Hey Dirtcaster..Its cool man..No Randy isnt upset. thats why we come back every weekend. BUT this post was made when it all first happened and i even said it in a earlier post myself that its all in the past and not to be worried about any more. And again, YES i know randy and tim came to an aggreement over the phone. All i was doing was replying to a last couple of post..not saying anything bad..So im sorry if it was took wrong in any form or fashion by anyone..
Ohh yea defintly bryan..the rim was totally 100% legal. Anyone anywhere can look that car over bumper to bumper and roof to wheels, every inch of it is legal..lol..you hit it on the money, we just grabbed the wrong rim.
Caster just want to thank you for replying and explaining the rule and the points situation side of this, the reason these post can get kinda hot and can go a bit to far is when the track does not explain the track procedures and policy in certain situations.
The earlier the policy and procedure is explained to people interested in certain situations the least problem that can come from talking about it.
They will always be questions about rules and difference in opinions on these things, but the track has policy and procedures they follow in certain situations as it pertains to points and money given out, and as the season continues and each weekend get more and more important for points to get into the Apple Day weekend points championship race questions about points and how they are awarded are going to becoming because the points will be determining the starting positions so questions about this type of situations will become even more important and they will probably look for answers on here, if they can't get up with you at the track.
So please keep a check on here to help get the information to the racefans, and drivers, they are looking for answers and I would much rather it come from a official source than from second hand information, but many times that is where the information comes and that can cause more problems than me or the tracks want on here.
That is what the forums are for, for the tracks to share information about situations that happens at the track.
I am happy to hear that Mike called Randy and worked the situation out, while I agree that is how this should have been handled they are some drivers I am sure was wondering about this situation and only information they may have been getting is on here, or second hand information now that someone from the track has posted some information about the policy and procedure concerning this, the drivers reading this will now understand how in the future this type of situation will be handled and this will help keep heated topics like this from getting to out of hand.
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